________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 13 :46: 02 -0000 From: "CIGZL" <clara_llum_1999@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Naikan? --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, "lotusaware" <lotusaware@y...> wrote: > There should be no conflict if there is no trying to do something. > If one is just observing and not trying to "make" something as in > expecting a result, then there is no problem. > > In all such cases the problem is the exercise of self-power to achieve > an end, to be attached to the result. > > Shinjin is a state in which Amida takes care of the results. We are > only asked to do two things in Shin Buddhism: Hear the dharma and say > the Nembutsu in gratitude. Anything else is just a part of being here > to let Amida's light shine in and through our lives. > > /\ > lotusaware Shinjin established, the mind that seeks results is the mind of Amida. Gassho Clara ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 13 :46: 06 -0400 From: Kyobo Peter Skye <kyobo@alltel.net> Subject: Re: Re: Naikan? >There should be no conflict if there is no trying to do something. If >one is just observing and not trying to "make" something as in >expecting a result, then there is no problem. >In all such cases the problem is the exercise of self-power to achieve >an end to be attached to the result. >Shinjin is a state in which Amida takes care of the results. We are >only asked to do two things in Shin Buddhism: Hear the dharma and say >the Nembutsu in gratitude. Anything else is just a part of being here >to let Amida's light shine in and through our lives. I appreciate Naikan (or, for that matter Aikido or Ikebana or Chado) somewhat differently. To me Naikan falls under the category of self-cultivation which (to my way of thinking) includes if not subsumes the deep hearing that is monpo. Taitetsu Unno made me aware of the difference between self-power and self-cultivation. Rather than excerpt all that he wrote about it I would commend chapters 8 and 9 of RIVER OF FIRE, RIVER OF WATER. John, I'm not saying that this is what you're saying (much less doing), but it is entirely possible to become so wary of rehearsing self-power that one becomes passive to the point of inertia trying to live a nembutsu lifestyle. With palms together Peter ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 17 :02:07 EDT From: Shin02143@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Naikan? In a message dated 5/28/05 1:46:56 PM, kyobo@alltel.net writes: << I'm not saying that this is what you're saying (much less doing), but it is entirely possible to become so wary of rehearsing self-power that one becomes passive to the point of inertia trying to live a nembutsu lifestyle. With palms together Peter >> Just to weigh in here, I am an artist (I compose music and poetry), and I don't feel any conflict about "self power" as one who exercises the creative spirit. Some might call it calculation. I call it naturalness (jinen). It is my nature to compose and write poetry. To suppress that impulse, in my view, would be to give in to self power. Perhaps we should be focused more on naturalness than on self/other power. The self/other power thing can be a real trap. gassho, Rick (Egen) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 01 :57: 49 -0000 From: "lotusaware" <lotusaware@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Naikan? Shinjin established, Amida is the result. Yet life goes on and foolishness continues. In the mind of stubble in the process of turning to gold, there is room for confusion between I and Amida as yet being separate. That is the foolishness of even one in whom Shinjin is established. Which mind is seeking results then? /0\ lotusaware > > Shinjin established, > the mind that seeks results > is the mind of Amida. > > Gassho > Clara ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 04 :24: 34 -0000 From: "CIGZL" <clara_llum_1999@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Naikan? --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, "lotusaware" <lotusaware@y...> wrote: > Shinjin established, > Amida is the result. > Yet life goes on and foolishness continues. > > In the mind of stubble in the process of turning to gold, there is > room for confusion between I and Amida as yet being separate. > That is the foolishness of even one in whom Shinjin is established. > Which mind is seeking results then? > > /0\ > lotusaware > > Dear Lotusaware, If shinjin is established in one's mouth there's room for [mental] separation, once is established in one's heart, there's not anymore. Both shinjin are Namu Amida Butsu. First is trust in truth. You are taken by Amida. Then is realization of truth. There was no one taken. Surrender to Other: Namu Amida Butsu. Thankful Peace: Namu Amida Butsu. Always one mind. Love in Gassho Clara ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 04 :38: 37 -0000 From: "lotusaware" <lotusaware@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Naikan? Clara, It appears that you have confused the absolute nondual with the relative dual. Shinjin is Amida's action not the action of self-will. Shinjin is not and does not necessarily connect us to the absolute. It is a state of sincere trusting, and there is nothing automatic about its action to move us directly to enlightenment, otherwise we would be living already in the Pure Land. You have come from a nondual background, please do not confuse the two. Shinjin is not an act of self-will, if it were what you say might make sense. That which brings gratitude is that we are accepted JUST AS WE ARE. The trust is there but the foolishness is also there, that doesn't change just because there is Shinjin. Otherwise we would be realized Buddhas. Shinjin only guarantees that we will enter the Pure Land and become enlightened, it does not put us there automatically. We are "saved" just because we are not only not enlightened but we are evil, foolish beings. What you seem to describe is the way of the sages, not the way of foolish beings? The Tannisho makes this clear and so does Shinran's writings. Gassho, lotusaware --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, "CIGZL" <clara_llum_1999@y...> wrote: > --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, "lotusaware" <lotusaware@y...> wrote: > > Shinjin established, > > Amida is the result. > > Yet life goes on and foolishness continues. > > > > In the mind of stubble in the process of turning to gold, there is > > room for confusion between I and Amida as yet being separate. > > That is the foolishness of even one in whom Shinjin is established. > > Which mind is seeking results then? > > > > /0\ > > lotusaware > > > > > > Dear Lotusaware, > > If shinjin is established in one's mouth there's room for [mental] > separation, once is established in one's heart, there's not anymore. > > Both shinjin are Namu Amida Butsu. > > First is trust in truth. > You are taken by Amida. > Then is realization of truth. > There was no one taken. > > Surrender to Other: > Namu Amida Butsu. > Thankful Peace: > Namu Amida Butsu. > > Always one mind. > > Love in Gassho > Clara ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 04 :45: 56 -0000 From: "lotusaware" <lotusaware@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Naikan? for Rick and Peter Rick, Excellent point and in my foolsih way expresses what I was trying to say. The calculating mind is the problem and naturalness is the solution which remaining free of attachment to the outcome, accepting what results with gratitude. Peter If Naikan is approached with a calculating mind, it is not naturalness. If Naiken is approached with Jinen, then it is compatible with the Shin Buddhist Way as I understand it. If the results are good, Namu Amida Butsu. If the results are not good, Namu Amida Butsu. If your question was to initiate debate, Namu Amida Butsu. If my answer and opinion was helpful, Namu Amida Butsu. If my answer was not helpful, Namu Amida Butsu. Gassho, lotusaware -- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, Shin02143@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 5/28/05 1:46:56 PM, kyobo@a... writes: > > << I'm not saying that this is what you're saying (much less doing), > but it > > is entirely possible to become so wary of rehearsing self-power that > one becomes > > passive to the point of inertia trying to live a nembutsu lifestyle. > > > With palms together > > Peter >> > > Just to weigh in here, I am an artist (I compose music and poetry), > and I don't feel any conflict about "self power" as one who exercises > the creative spirit. Some might call it calculation. I call it > naturalness (jinen). It is my nature to compose and write poetry. To > suppress that impulse, in my view, would be to give in to self power. > > Perhaps we should be focused more on naturalness than on self/other > power. The self/other power thing can be a real trap. > gassho, > Rick > (Egen)

Message: 2 Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 17 :15: 47 -0000 From: "CIGZL" <clara_llum_1999@yahoo.com> Subject: tariki When you expect to be saved by Amida because you have done your part of the deal (trust, resolution and nembutsu), this is jiriki. Namu Amida Butsu is not about two that meet, "you" and "Amida", your [faith-resolution-nembutsu] and his [vow]. Namu Amida Butsu is I'm not but Amida. This is tariki. Shinjin is understanding that 'you' are not. That Amida IS. And that any LIFE you have is him. If you chant to benefit others knowing that there's no 'me' chanting but Amida that's tariki and Amida's buddhic activity. Amida is 'no limit', infinite, the whole universe. So it encompasses and transcends relative beings. There's only one activity, awakened or asleep, the boundless ocean of life and light. Namu Amida Butsu is insight into truth. If you are asleep, Namu Amida Butsu. If you are awakened, Namu Amida Butsu. Jiriki is asleep Tariki. Tariki is awakened Jiriki (Amida's!). Gassho Clara ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 17 :42: 32 -0000 From: "CIGZL" <clara_llum_1999@yahoo.com> Subject: nembutsu Dharma Nembutsu Dharma is final Dharma, nondual. It starts already at the end: Amida. Timelessness. Nowness. Eternity. Wholeness. Oneness. "Infinite Life". It penetrates the Dharmakaya from the start. The Dharmadatu. The absolute realm. The Vow is efficacious because nothing is apart the truth. Nothing is apart Amida. So all things "are saved" from the start, to begin with. The Vow means Amida's activity, Dharmata, suchness. Namu Amida Butsu is insight into truth. First, exposed to truth. Namu Amida Butsu. Then, taken by truth. Namu Amida Butsu. All in all, the Vow alone operating. Exposed or taken, nobody exposed, nobody taken. Namu Amida Butsu. Gassho Clara